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Civil servants reject government pay offer

MEMBERS of the Government Officers' Association, the civil service union, have rejected the zero per cent pay deal offered by the Civil Service Commission.

Just under 60 per cent of the 1,700 members returned the ballot, with 93 per cent of those (898) voting against the deal.

The most recent GOA members' notice this week tells members of the result.

'If there is no movement from the employer then the only alternatives are arbitration or industrial action,' the notice says.

'Either way, it will be you that determines how we move forward as we intend to ballot you to ensure that this is your decision as a membership.'

Negotiations officer for the GOA, Angela Moffatt, said the result of the ballot, which closed on August 23, was mirrored in a ballot of GOA members of the Manx Electricity Authority.

In that ballot, about 60 per cent of members returned the ballot, and 95 per cent of those rejected the zero per cent pay deal.

Ms Moffatt said: 'It's clear there is nothing on the table.

'The problem with that is it is really starting to bite, we are getting stories of real hardship.'

She said: 'It may well be that members don't want to go down the industrial action route because they know people across the Island are struggling.

'We have a government which has turned its face away from its people, and in particular, those of its people who work in the public sector.

'There is only one way that is going to go and that's industrial conflict.'

Last year's zero offer resulted in the issue being decided by an independent arbitrator.

It was decided that staff should be given a 200 lump sum payment.

Government departments are now making savings in order to find the money for those payments.

Meanwhile, pay talks between Isle of Man Post Office and the Communication Workers' Union are continuing.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

Send your comments to newsviews@newsiom.co.im

YOUR COMMENTS

I work in financial services for the private sector and we have a pay freeze as well, and no 200 one-off bonus. Angela Moffat, and the members of the Union are on a different planet. I would like to see what these stories of 'real hardship' are because people are not getting a pay increase. I have had to cut back on my spending and work more hours for no extra pay, because I am committed. We don't have the luxury of final salary pensions, flexi time and all the other perks that go with a Government job! Sack the lot of them, they work for us.

ANDY, Laxey

If someone offered me a vote on whether or not I should accept a 0% pay deal I certainly would vote no! However, it is unrealistic of them to expect a payrise when the govt budgets have been slashed. Next year when the budgets shrink yet further there will be redundancies, there can't not be. I have no doubts though the current crop of MHK's will keep stringing the civil servants and Manx public along and delay any difficult decisions on redundancies until after the election by which time it will be someone else's problem.

AC.

Bernard agrees - these people are truly unreal. Has Angela not been following the recent news about Government cutbacks? What is she expecting a10% rise and a lump sum bonus. Get real while you still have jobs.

BERNARD MONTGOMERY WILBERFORCE, UK

These unions make me laugh, time to wake and smell the coffee and have a look what us happening in the real world. I have just been made redundant, how about that for a hardship story Mrs Moffat!

LOOKING FOR WORK, Douglas.

For once in your life Ms Moffatt you need to wake up, smell the coffee and live in the real world for a couple of hours. There are too many IOM government workers for a start. Couple that with an over generous final salary pension (which no longer exists in the real world) and all of the other government benefits and it all adds up to a civil service that is unaffordable. I'm sorry, but it's the truth. The current government know this and whether you agree with their methods or not, a pay freeze, whilst unfortunate, is absolutely necessary and only the tip of the iceberg in terms of costs which need to be eliminated. Industrial action will cost even more money and potentially put more of your members out of work. It's not 1984 anymore. Get a real job.

MAE

Ms Moffat needs to live in the real world….most people in the island will have had a 2 year pay freeze and the government jobs are well paid anyways, if they are feeling hardship maybe they should leave the government and find another job. There are plenty out jobless people out there that would appreciate anything. To be honest everyone should be lucky that they still have a job.

ANGRY PRIVATE SECTOR WORKER

I think the government should simply approach this from another angle. Give the civil servants their demanded pay rise, from what are obviously inadequate financial resources, while at the same time downsizing the currently bloated government ranks to make the books balance. If these people are silly enough to demand a pay rise, even while the government is trying to find the revenue to pay for the last lump sum payment, they obviously do not have the respect for taxpayers and common sense to continue serving the public. Let them learn a bit about what 'hardship' as it exists in our world really is.

RE

How about a 10% pay rise and a 20% cut in the number of public service jobs? Would our public servants vote for that to make it affordable?

MSJ

GET A GRIP WOMAN! Public sector numptyism once again. You are not guaranteed a job for life....or a pay rise every year.....even in the Public Sector. I'd love these people to experience the pressure of a competitive marketplace where you have to perform in order to achieve and be rewarded. Getting truly sick of wingers like this, sack em' all and start again.

Another person from the real world, realworldsville

Whilst I have every sympathy for those finding it hard, I would just say that where I work and related companies who we deal with, the vast majority have had no pay rise for 3 years! Thats 0% for 3 years at a time when Manx inflation is around 6% a year! A good proportion of those companies, including ours have lost staff, some have even shut down altogether, perhaps someone can explain what 'Freedom to flourish' actually means! We have to pay our own pensions out of our salary, these are not final salary schemes because as one contributor says this is probably the only place on the planet still operating these unaffordable packages. They should be frozen now and reintroduced as a standard pension, including and especially those at the top. The public pension pot is dwindling fast! spending a huge chunk on the hospital didnt help! I'm sorry but until the world economy starts to get back on its feet we are all going to suffer, Fact!

STEVO

What planet are some people on? I know absolutely loads of people in the private financial sector who have not had any pay freeze and who have recently had in excess of 20% bonuses (at all levels within organisations). To say that the private financial sector has been subject to a 2 year pay freeze is abjectly ridiculous in the extreme. Get your facts right!

KD

We are looking at this from the wrong angle, we should allocate funds to each department for the year and leave it to the chief officers of the respective departments to spend with the staff that is needed and if staff have to go so be it, if of course the staff wish to keep their jobs then it is up to them.

RR

Here we go again. The poor underpaid, overworked and undervalued civil servants bleating about their pay and conditions. Are we, the Manx public so deserving of this kind of contempt from people who are employed to serve the population of our island? I don't know how we will ever overcome the mentality of the "me, me, me" brigade, but it really is time for drastic action to be taken. There can be nobody who is unaware of the financial problems being faced by millions of people, and it's time that civil servants joined the rest of us to overcome these difficulties together.

MC

There seems to be a lot of anger here directed on a personal basis towards Angela. Why? She is representing her concerned members....they have left her with their feelings via a legal bona fide vote and she is just expressing them by representation. These members are just ordinary people, and far from the popular public held belief ,they are no better paid than anyone else. Yes, some of the Civil Service heirarchy are well paid but these people voting on this in the majority have well below the stated average salary. Anyway its not exclusively just for Civil Service workers so people should know their facts before commenting. Truth being told these same people carry the can and work extremely hard to keep the island afloat....they are always the ones doing the tidy up after failed Government and are the same people who are trying their hardest to get this island back on its feet. They dont make the big decisions that cost lots of cash so save your bitterness for the ones that do ( MHKs ) .....did you vote in an election by any chance? Dont work for Government? shame, the qualifications to get in are higher yet the wage in comparison is lower....suggests that the people who work there are commited and professional doesnt it? The country as a whole needs to get the economy going...are people really suggesting that the best way to do that is to deny the these people some money so they cant spend any????? how stupid can you actually get? the economy will die if nothing is spent! if these people dont spend money you may as well get ready to say goodbye to all your jobs including those in the private sector! Andy...200 was not a one off bonus so Im afraid thats wrong to suggest it was , and not all jobs have flexi time so again its wrong to suggest it could be...so get your facts right before commenting on something you know nothing about. If youre not happy with your salary or you have to cut back theres a simple answer ...get another job ....simple! Bernard...It was put to a vote and the answers are there. Not everyone agrees with them views but its not Angelas fault....shes just there to express her members feeling Looking for work ...get a job and get on with it, millions of people have had to do it before so stop whingeing and get on with it. Hardship??? has someone died? has it had an effect of say a flood in Pakistan? No it hasnt so get a grip, stop whingeing and most importantly get a job. Mae , ANGRY PRIVATE SECTOR WORKER, MSJ and Re...yes some comments are valid and correct but then again its not these people who the problem lies with....youre attacking the peripheral of the problem and not the core / root of it.

MACCA

I work for government but I am not a civil servant and yet it seems that anyone who does not work for government thinks its ok to have a go about our so called perks and pensions. It makes me very annoyed as you clearly don't know the facts. I have never in the 20 years I have worked here had so much as a perk unless you count the odd cup of tea which we now have to pay for as well as provide for our clients out of our own pockets. As for our pensions, its true that civil servants don't contribute to theirs but I, like many other government workers who are non civil servants, have been paying into my pension at at rate of at least 6% for the last 32 years. This comes out of my salary every month,my pension is actually my money .As for fat salaries, don't make me laugh. It's true that some of us happen to earn a decent wage now but only over the last 5 years or so, and it has taken a long slog studying for degree's, paid for by ourselves, in order to get there. I take exception to those griping that I should be grateful for my job, salary, pension etc, I could be made redundant just the same as anybody else. I do work alongside civil servants. They are hard working decent people in the main, not greedy money grabbers, (unless you count the MHK's who don't contribute much at all, least of all to their very generous pensions), and their 200 'bonus' was taxed so they didn't really get all of it anyway. They are only fighting for their jobs and incomes, and you would do the same if you had to even if times are hard.

DP

I was a union member for the whole of my working life in local government and the British Civil Service. But I think that both British and Isle of Man public servants should not expect a pay rise this time round; the same as some people in the private sector have suffered for much longer than just a year. My public sector pension did not rise this year. Like government departments in the UK, I know there are similar financial constraints on the Manx ones; and it has to be accepted that efficiency savings could also affect jobs. This is where we are - if you have a job, try and keep it by working harder and not expecting a rise, at least for a year.

IG, Retired Civil Servant, North Yorkshire, UK

The union should really wake up to what is happening in the UK. Pay freezes and massive redundancies in the Government service are the order of the day and will have to be mirrored in the IOM. How can an Island with 80,000 plus population justify 8000 people working for the Government in one way or another, and 8000 subsidised council houses. Who is expected to pay for all of this? Our income from the Common Purse has gone down by 140,000, 000 for ever and has to be replaced if we are going to survive and not have to run to the UK Government cap in hand to be bailed out. The Island has a major financial crisis on its hands and those employed by the Government are going to have to suffer in one way or another for the Island to survive.

C SLINN

Hi Just a few comments from myself, a Government Civil Servant, on the 'no' pay offer from IOM Civil Service. Firstly, I was very disappointed to read some of the comments on this site, particularly from the so-called 'less-fortunate' private sector! I previously worked in the private sector for a long time, and I certainly did not come to the Public Sector for an easy-ride! And it's certainly not an easy-ride anyway that's for sure!! Secondly….I do a very tough, technical, professional, customer-service job for the government. With constant changes & technical changes too. Due to the technical nature of the job, plus professional compliance requirements, plus of course the BEST customer service always being provided – and also the constant conscientious pressure I also put on myself to the best job I can (as well as all the constant changes as well) I KNOW I completely justify my role & my salary. (I am only an administrator, no more, and my salary is pretty basic!) And simply on all that, I completely DESERVE a pensionable increment, no doubt whatsoever!! But, with NI going UP, tax going UP, pension contributions going UP, NO increments either, my monthly take-home salary is obviously going DOWN & DOWN! And my very simple future deserved, hard-worked-for pension, is also ERODING too!! And on top of all that, the job now wants MORE & MORE as well! :-/ It's very WRONG, UNFAIR…whatever you want to describe it! It's NOT rosy at all working as a Civil Servant! I am NOT a 'big-shot' Civil Servant by any means either. Just a decent, down-to-earth, hard-working guy & father. I work hard always to provide the best possible life for me, but more importantly for my DAUGHTER!! So, as I say, my salary is going down & down, plus I am also now expected to now take on more & more too within my job too – and NO INCREMENTS either!!?? For me, in my circumstances, to NOT get any increment, let alone a pensionable one, is NOTHING SHORT OF SCANDALOUS!! For me, life as a Civil Servant is very much NOT rosy at all, in fact it is very tough. I try to always keep my personal life well away from my job, but to compound things too, I am also unfortunately going through a divorce as well – so basically I need every penny I can get, and I work very hard for every penny too! I live in a tiny bedsit and see my daughter as often as I can. AS A CIVIL SERVANT, I WORK HARD, I AM NOT A BIG-SHOT, LIFE IS NOT ROSY AT ALL, MY SALARY & PENSION ARE PRETTY BASIC – FOR THE EXCELLENT, EFFECTIVE, CONSCIENTIOUS JOB I ALWAYS DO, THERE IS NO DOUBT WHATSOEVER THAT I DESERVE REGULAR PENSIONABLE INCREMENTS!! THE CIVIL SERVICE COMMISSION, AND OTHER PEOPLE WHO THINK ALL WE CIVIL SERVANTS HAVE GOT FANTASTIC LIVES, SHOULD OPEN THEIR EYES MUCH WIDER AT THE BIGGER PICTURE, AND SUPPORT & HELP DECENT GUYS & EMPLOYEES LIKE ME, AND THERE ARE LOTS OF US!! (The Civil Service are fortunate to have ME, but am I fortunate to have THEM…unfortunately, I DON'T THINK SO!! L ) Thank you.

JOHN

Voting against a zero percent increase is not the same as expecting to be granted an increase. I think you will find that the majority of Civil servants are quite correctly saying that the offer is not acceptable whilst acknowledging that it will likely not change the outcome. No demand for a pay rise (to my knowledge) has been made, simply a vote to ask if you agree with getting nothing at all. That said if the zero percent was unanimously accepted then I imagine that it would continue to be offered ad infinitum. All of the private sector folk who are bashing here seem to have an astounding lack of ability to comprehend what is actually being reported.

ANON

@ John & the various other govt workers. No one is doubting that you are hard working, the crux of the situation is that this government has a vastly reduce budget and is eating into reserves to keep itself afloat. It needs to reduce costs. The biggest cost is manpower (60% I believe). Increasing expenditure on manpower when budgets are being reduced does not make good fiscal sense (or in fact any sense). Yes, cost of living is rising but it is rising for all of us. Many of us in the private sector didn't get a payrise, many of us don't have any form of final salary pension (yes I know the MHK's get a better one than you but your pension is better than mine), some companies don't even offer pensions, and we are all effected by inflation and VAT rise. So stop overreacting and look at the truth of the situation – there is no money for your payrise. @ KD Really?! 20% bonuses? I can think of only one bank that wasn't really hit by the credit crunch that would pay that (1 company out of hundreds does not an argument make). I work in the private sector and can promise you that 20% bonuses and payrises didn't happen in my company this year!

AC.

The problem we have here is that the government is saying there is a pay freeze for public sector workers and yet the current spending spree being undertaken by the government does not reflect this. Ms Moffatt along with other unions are involved in pay talks all over the place at the moment and the mandate as to what union leaders do comes from the members of these unions, union leaders only make recommendations, the decisions as to whether something is acceptable is with the members.

The government cannot have it all ways as there are some clear examples at the moment since the restructure of government departments has taken place where some individuals have had their workload reduced greatly yet no attempt has been made to reduce the money paid to some of these people, health and social care comes to mind as two separate departments now, with two chief executives where prior to the change there was one doing the work. There is a clear element of protectionism for those at the top on the 100 thousand plus a year, and yet those at the bottom are the ones expected to suffer yet again. The government also continues to push people and encourage the public to buy local, this will not happen, I for one will not buy local if I have less money to spend when I can get the same products from the UK online much cheaper, the current stance taken by government is not just nailing public sector workers it will effect all these people having a dig at the public sector as they will not be buying products locally or using local services. The final point that needs to be made is that even the UK government which according to our MHK's is far worse off than we are has said that there is room for pay awards to those on low incomes I think the figures were those on less than 21 grand a year. Our government hasn't even come up with an offer like that so that says to me that we are not doing as well as perhaps Mrs Craine makes out, but what would she know about finance control she couldn't even control the finances at the college so how can anyone expect her to run the economy!! Time well tell what happens over this one but we won't have too long to wait as there is an election next year and the current crop will not be judged on empty promises they will be judged on achievements to date…shouldn't be too hard to know who to vote for then should it!!

GARY

I don't think anyone is stupid enough to think that there is actually money available for a pay rise, of course not. If asked anyone would say they want a pay rise, its human nature, but its the government-worker bashing that irks. Do you realise that government workers are not all suits with fat salaries, they include the emergency services, nurses, cleaners, and care workers, some of whom earn a very low salary. If you want to talk about money efficiency, why do prisoners and those on benefits get a 500 tax relief windfall every year when they haven't even paid tax? and why are there foreign workers in some of these jobs when we have manx people on the dole? I'm not racist, just being practical, and don't tell me that they do all the low paid jobs that no one else wants, tell that to the nurses just coming out of training school who have to struggle to get a job in the health service that has trained them. And why is the government sick pay scheme so generous? Its constantly abused. The government is to blame for all this mess so don't blame the workers, after all, we are all workers.

DP

I am a civil servant and some of these comments make me sick, I have not had a proper pay rise for FIVE years, the 200 payment last year was just a drop in the ocean, all the household and every day bills have gone up and the overtime has been cut by 50% so how are we suppose to manage? Yes some civil servants earn a fortune each year but I am not one of them.

ANON

So civil servants and government workers have said NO to a zero % pay rise, so what !!! If you include this year's zero my son has had a 3.5% pay rise in the last 3 years. I, on the other hand (private sector) have had a 12% rise over the same period and his mother(private as well) has had a 14% rise. So, what is your problem about these people (even though they haven't) asking for a pay rise. As for perks, the ill informed make me sick, if breathing is classed as a perk then, that's his perk. He works every other weekend, works bank holidays, including xmas, boxing day, new years eve and day but you whinning pathetic bunch of ***** will be the first to ring up and ask for help if something goes wrong, forgetting that you have slagged them off here. Let's see if you heroes have the proverbial balls and leave your names here, and, if you need help in any way and my son is on the end of the phone, see if the help turns up. You lot ask for everything, expect everything but have forgotten that people have to supply what YOU want NOW !!!

CJ

The money is there.Plenty. Ask the DOI. They cannot be getting huge sums on pathetic schemes if that money don't exist. Massive penny pinching at the cutting edge, whilst SPEND! at the management level on expensive,pet personal projects. I am Hospital worker,there has been almost no net recruitment for >3 yrs. Our section has had no increase in staff for 15 years. In that time our workload has increased by 5-10% every year. And much more complex. Overwork,burnout and stress is a daily problem. At least, in our area. Some, are happy as Larry,it is true,and seem to be "protected". There is waste. But there is also a "penny pinch, waste the pounds" attitude. I pay for my pension, it is not "given" to me as a gift. You'd all be complaining if I was crap at my job.You might die. Pay peanuts you get monkeys. Besides,there are enough in Tynwald already. I will strike.

PK.

I am a Civil Servant (A.O. Grade) who voted against agreeing to the 0% rise for the following reason - I am actually facing a pay decrease in real terms when proposed changes to the Civil Service Pension finally get agreed upon. All Civil Servants we will all be 6% worse off per year due to the increased contributions they will have to make. Also, as I am at the top of my pay scale I do not receive any incremental increases annually, only any agreed percentage increases that we are offered as a pay rise (or not as in this case).The only light at the end of the tunnel is that Whitley Council Staff are also negotiating their own pay deal and I believe they will not settle for 0% (although they won't be facing any changes to their own pension contributions as Civil Servants will be). We live in very challenging times and I believe proposals such as working a 4 day week for some staff and a clampdown on overtime work and "on-call" payments maybe some of the options being looked at to cut pay budgets throughout Government.

MR FINDO GASK (20 years in, 25 to go . . .)

Many people who have posted comments have made a very common error of referring to people such as nurses etc as being government workers. They ARE employed by the government, but they are NOT civil servants, neither are most of the front line staff who work in support services throughout the island. Let us be clear about who is involved in this Civil Service Union. Perhaps the public needs clarification about just who Ms Moffatt is representing.

MC

Just a few comments to put things straight. I an perectly aware that not all government workers are civil servants, I happen to be one who is not, but since many comments have been made about 'government workers' I wanted to point out that many of us work for government and do not have the perks etc that many people assume we have. Also, we are not facing changes to our pension because we already pay 6% and have always done so, as one contributor pointed out, we pay for our pension it is not a gift. I have some sympathy for the civil servants, well some of them anyway, but not on the pension front, in order to get a similar pension to me they should pay for it like I have to, though that is all going to change in April 2012 after the government wasted a huge amount of money on some consultants telling them that they could save money by nobbling the pension we have paid for all these years. Except the MHK's pension that is.

DP

I haven't had a pay rise in 3 years…but at least I still have a job. Let's take a step back for a moment and think about which you'd prefer…

DL NZ

My income is dropping year on year. I have no sympathy for people who don't get an annual rise paid for from the taxes I must pay from my reducing income.

RON

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