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Facebook campaign for Manx mosque faces opposition

AN internet group set up by the Island's Muslim community has sparked fiercely anti-Islamic opposition.

The group on social networking site Facebook, outlining their campaign for a new mosque to replace the converted garage used at present, has attracted almost 100 members.

But 360 people have joined an opposition group claiming to be non-racist but carrying comments such as: 'Thay (sic) can **** right off!!!!!! thay come over and don't respect are (sic) way of life.

'Thay belive (sic) if you are not a muslam (sic) you should die wots (sic) all that about!!! thay have one (a mosque) as it is so why do thay need a new one **** off i say !!!'

This is the second Facebook row centred in the Isle of Man to come to light in the past week.

iomtoday reported on Friday that high school students had joined a group called 'Keep the Isle of Man White & Free from Foreigners', which was shut down.

>> Manx students sign up to racist Facebook group

30 April 2009

The creator of the group 'New Mosque for Isle of Man' explains the Muslim community, thought to number around 70, has been using a small converted garage as a mosque for more than 20 years.

He claims Islamic worshippers are 'at a disadvantage' as the mosque is too small to hold them all for Jumuah salah, a Friday afternoon prayer considered the most important of the week.

He adds: 'This group was not created with the intention of building a vast new mosque that dominates the skyline of Douglas.

'It is intended to raise awareness, motivation, money and community support — whatever it takes to get an appropriately-sized mosque built so that Muslims can practise their religion without hindrance.'

Meanwhile, contributors to the opposition group 'No to Mosque in the Isle of Man' urge members to 'keep your Island free of the alien invaders'.

One member accuses the Island's Muslims of 'taking education, jobs and a better way of life and throwing it back in our faces'.

Another writes: 'You can't say you are Muslim and not expect suspicion from the world . . . you have earned it.'

Those who have left messages condemning such comments are described as 'white traitors'.

'Wake up and grow some loyalty to your own people, your own country, your own race, your own identity as White British,' one member writes.

'Stop falling over yourself to condemn your own people all so a horde of foreign, anti-British Muslims can colonise the Isle of Man.'

One Island-based Muslim writes: 'I don't see why a very small group of people going to worship in their own time, not bothering anyone else, seems so bad to people?

'The last 20 years is proof that Islam on the Isle of Man is not a negative thing and that it has never affected anything on the Island in a bad way.

'The only difference now is that the mosque is no longer big enough and it is against health and safety regulations for 70 people to pray in a building that only holds 40.

'The Muslims on the Isle of Man have never bothered anyone before. What makes people think that a slightly bigger place to worship is going to damage the Isle of Man?'

A spokesman for the Muslim community, responding to an interview request from the Examiner, said members felt it 'probably isn't the best course of action at this point in time'.

l Meanwhile, Education Minister Anne Craine has spoken of her disappointment at students' involvement in the 'Keep the Isle of Man White & Free from Foreigners' site.

'I think it's very disappointing that a few individuals with strongly held views have brought the school population of our Island in to disrepute through their ill-chosen comments,' she said.

'I was very heartened to see that comments were subsequently posted by young people wh found the original comments deplorable.

'Whilst young people may have been involved in this unfortunate incident, I would like to emphasise that none of it took place in any of our schools on any of our school computers but it is clearly something that has taken place outside and possibly from their own home computers.

'I don't think it reflects the majority view of our young people, who are fine, upstanding young citizens that we can be proud of.'

Mrs Craine said the Department of Education tries to promote tolerance through physical, health and social education lessons in schools.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

Send your comments to newsviews@newsiom.co.im

YOUR COMMENTS

These racist comments are utterly disgraceful. Are the so called White British the same people who came over with the Vikings? Where did the Vikings originate from I wonder? Or maybe they are the same people who migrated over to what is now the British Islands after the last ice age? Do all of these complainers actually attend a place of worship every week - other than the pub. It has always suprised me how many people living here and claiming to be Manx actually know very little of the Island's culture anyway. Two pieces of advice for these pathetic idiots: Get your DNA checked - it may surprise you to learn where you came from originally and who you are connected to. Go back to school and learn how to spell properly before you accuse others of taking advantage of the education facilities here. Finally, as someone who was brought up in the North West of England (with Manx ancestry before you comment on that!!!), some of the nicest people I have come into contact with have been Muslim. There is no logical reason why this group of people cannot have a decent place of worship. I'm sure that when the Romans invaded Britain there were plenty of complaints from the Druids about Roman temples, same when the Christians started building churches and killing pagans.

GRUMPY

I'm a white Manx person, not a white British person (there is a difference). The religion on my birth certificate is down as Christian, but I don't practice. However, I, like most other Manx people, would have no problem whatsoever if the Muslim community on the island wanted to build, or convert an existing building to enable them to worship safely and more comfortably. We're a multi-cultural society and as such each religious group has a right to a place of worship, I mean how many Christian churches are there on this island? And how many of you so called white British Christians, who are against Muslims and the Islamic religion as a whole (which is probably based on the tabloid media version), actually go to church – whether your Church of England, Catholic or a member of the many other Christian religions that have places of worship on the Island.

TIMK

As a Manx person I am a descendent of Nordic people who settled on the Isle of Man and left us with the laws and Government we closely guard to this day. And as a Christian I welcome all who contribute to our Island including the Muslim community, I do not see myself as a traitor but as progressive as we all learn from each other. I wonder do these bigots hold fast to their opinions when their child is in need of emergency treatment and the doctor is a Muslim? Hate only destroys those who practise it no matter the colour of their skin or their religion. Those who preach race haltered are the real traitors to the Isle of Man and we would be better off without them one and all

GEOFF

How many of the people opposing the new mosque actually knew where the location of the existing mosque was until this fuss started? The worshippers cause no bother in the area apart from the usual problem in Douglas of parking. The facilities are not big enough and parking is very limited. Surely they are being considerate in looking for more suitable premises? Somewhere near the Hospital would probably be more appropriate as many work at Nobles and would give space for parking.

LIZ

This group has been going for a number of weeks now. Most of the comments are appalling and shows the lack of education – not just written English, but world knowledge. I have deleted 'friends' who have invited me to join this group. The creator claims the group is not intended as racist, and that she has a family member who is Muslim but she is failing to delete the abhorrent comments left by illiterate uneducated idiots.

SE

I am the first person to argue over the building of any site of worship as religion should be personal, not organised…But tarnishing an entire people because of the actions of the few is immoral and wrong, not matter what you believe. Christianity, Judaism and Islam are all part of the same belief, no matter what anyone says… only slight variations in the rules and a different telling of the stories separates them. If they want to build a mosque, let them, as long as they gather their own money, apply for planning permission and go through all the correct channels. The only thing I would be against would be any special treatment just because they are a "Minority". The Island has too many foreigners for the Manx to say anything against the Muslims here. For example there are more Brits here than Manx nowadays… but we don't start riots against them do we?

ASHAMED MANXMAN

As you get older and wiser in life one becomes more tolerant and understanding of others and their faiths. With that in mind, good luck to the Muslim community, they have a right to a place of worship as much as anyone . It's the Judean Peoples Front that I worry about!!

LEE

"Religion is the opiate of the masses" - Karl Marx I think that just about says it all really.

NICK, Onchan

I am a white British woman living in the Isle of Man, I recently married a non British muslim and we live together on the Island. I think everyone has a right to worship whichever religion they choose and in an appropriate environment. Although the Muslim community on the island is relatively small, I am sure that a garage is not the most suitable place for them to worship. The problem on this island seems to be backward attitudes and ignorance towards people of different races and religions. If people from this island went to live across they would have a rude awakening to what a multi cultural country the UK has become and the benefits that it brings. A very small minority of the religion has resulted in a bad reputation and misguided belief that all muslims are extremists who want to kill innocent people, what they don't seem to realise is that there are just as many christian extremists or other religious fundamentalist groups but nobody kicks up a stink about them. You can't tar everybody with the same brush. I find it strange that nobody brings up the fact that Jehovah witnesses and Mormons traipse the streets knocking on doors preaching their beliefs yet never once has a Muslim follower knocked on my door to try to convert me - not even my husband!

SL

I am sure most genuine Manx people would agree, as Manx we really do not like change in any way, it's our little Island we did not choose move here for employment, for tax reason's or just because we wanted a better life, we were born here and so were are parents and their parents before them but how many of the people who are against the Mosque are genuine Manx and not just moved or been born here in the past 30 years and then labelled as Manx, being a genuine Manx person is more than just having a Manx Passport. This whole Mosque issue is nothing more than the (NOT IN MY BACK YARD MENTALLITY). I have to agree with most people fears which are as soon as a Mosque is built in an area, the price of property drop's and a Muslim move in the local's move out an in time the whole area becomes one large white free zone, this has happened in so many areas of the UK and this is a sad fact that cannot be denied. The only thing this achieves is a racial divide and hatred and is this something the Isle of Man does not need, but if the Mosque is built or placed in the wrong area this could cause so much turmoil which will only have one end result. If the Isle of Man Government doesn't want a racial problem in the next 5 or 10 years time they need to make sure that any Mosque which is built, is built in the correct place. To me this should be built away from any housing estates and on the outskirts of town. This way there is no property price drop, no problem with parking and no racial divide, end result no problem. At the end of the day all that these people are wanting is a place to pray and that should not be denied to anyone. But the people who want this Mosque should also take in to account the feeling of the local people in area which they want to build or purchase in and at the end of the day how happy would a Muslim in Iraq/Iran/ Pakistan or India be if the Church or England or the Catholic Church wanted to build in an all Muslim area we all know this would not happen in any of the above countries.

PETER, Onchan

Having worked in the middle east for several years I can tell you that if any British person/s wanted to construct a church in any middle east country they would be deported and not allowed back, yet we want to allow them to construct what ever they want in our own back door, I am in no way racist against Muslims infact I have made many good friends over the years and still stay in touch with them but even my muslim friends will say that being a Muslim to some makes them think that they have a devine right to build and worship what where they like I wonder where all this will lead to especially in such a small location as the IOM is

JIM, Douglas

I think it raises a few interesting points, firstly the schools need to tackle the extreme racism that is in the Manx schools. It comes down to pure ignorance and a lack of understanding. It was only a few years ago that I was in school and Religious Education lessons were severely lacking and quite honestly no one was interested in copying pages from books, it needs a serious shake up. On the subject of allowing a Mosque to be built. I am not racist, but this idea should not be entertained. Not because they shouldn't be allowed to worship, but because they ARE living in a christian society. Apparently it is not PC to have Christmas carol services for schools or to have Nativity plays because it offends those who are not of Christian decent- I think this applies to the Jehovah Witnesses just as much as it does any other. If we wish to go to Muslim countries, we obey their laws and respect their culture. The same should apply here. The IOM is small enough to be able to control such measures.

LN

The Manx schoolkids have got the right idea, they obviously haven't been brainwashed by leftist moral cowards and traitors like our British schoolkids have. Be proud of your country and culture. There is no benefit in multiculturalism, it's a lie and a con to get you to accept foreign workers who will undercut your wages, trash your culture and change your country beyond all recognition. All people naturally prefer to be surrounded by people like themselves, with the same values and beliefs. It's only in the West that people are taught that that is wrong. And it's only white people who fall for it. SL - "I am a white British woman living in the Isle of Man, I recently married a non British muslim and we live together on the Island. I think everyone has a right to worship whichever religion they choose and in an appropriate environment." Well surely there are far more appropriate environments for muslims than the Isle of Man, like Saudi Arabia for example? More fool you for marrying a muslim man, ask him what he'd do if a non muslim man wanted to marry his sister, and what are you going to do if he wants to take a second wife, or a third or a fourth?

ONCE PROUD BRIT

We are into Demonology ourselves and for the last 20 years have had to practice our witchcraft in a shed from B&Q. So it really annoys us that everyone's kickin' up a big stink about the Mosque. How on earth are we going to get planning approval for a "Forbidden Temple" on Langness after this ruckus?

SOUTHERN WITCH COVEN

Having looked at this group on Facebook, I fail to understand what the big deal is, I personally disagree with a mosque being built on the Island as as previously mentioned this would be unacceptable in a middle east country so why do we have to accept it in ours? I have seen the comments claiming the group to be racist and again i disagree, people are simply expressing their opinions and because some people disagree with this they are calling them names. The creator of the group has stated there be no racist comment and says the racist ones have been removed. There is some interesting comments on this group for and against a mosque. I think the word "racist" is used too commonly. Everyone has an opinion so let them have their say. No-one can tell anyone what to think or say!

LEE, Douglas

Wow, never mind the main subject of a new mosque, it concerns me that our young adults now have such strong views and perceptions of one religious group. Now we have to ask ourselves where did this come from? I would think the media from around the world. Those of us that are older and wiser know that these are a minority and not the majority. But the damage has been done we now have a generation of people who will never trust or forget what they have been brought up to believe. How sad and dangerous is that...

VICTOR

I disagree with you Lee. Most of the comments on the site are racist - and downright nasty. They also throw a spotlight on the appalling ignorance and illiteracy of some residents of the Island. They are not just anti-Mosque but are actually calling for all Muslims to leave the Island (in language I will not use). IF ONLY these people would sign a public declaration stating that they will refuse any medical treatment whatsoever from a Muslim - be it a doctor, radiologist, nurse etc then we would save a fortune and the waiting lists would go down drastically. This will not happen though, as racist people are generally cowards who haven't the guts to act on what they claim to be their beliefs. There is no reason why a small group of people living peacefully here should not have a better venue as a place of worship. Why should they be forced to build it in an out of the way place? I personally am offended by the Masonic 'Temple' in Douglas - but accept that it is there for people who want to join and use it. If you are going to segregate people into areas because they 'offend' others where will it end? Perhaps we could have 'fat towns' for people who think that obese people are taking up too much space in Douglas. I am surprised by the comment that we are living in a Christian society - it must be the Muslims who go out on the lash every weekend, and then clutter up A & E after having had a fight on the way home. It must also be the Muslims who are responsible for all the single mothers who don't work and claim benefits, all the vandalism and crime etc. If every person who has left a nasty comment on the site went to a Christian church from now on and really tried to live life according to the Christian Gospel THEN we could claim to be a Christian society. I am so ashamed of the Island at the moment. I wish President Obama would point the nuclear warhead at us and press the red button.

GRUMPY

The message to all politicians is to be very careful - it will not bring peace. Lesser educated Muslims sometimes claim that the root word of Islam is "al-Salaam," which is "peace" in Arabic. This is a myth, as an Arabic word only has one root. The root word for Islam is "al-Silm," which means "submission" or "surrender." There is no controversy about this among Islamic scholars. al-Silm (submission) does not mean the same thing as al-Salaam (peace), otherwise they would be the same word. Submission and peace can be very different concepts, even if a form of peace is often brought about through forcing others into submission. As the modern-day Islamic scholar, Ibrahim Sulaiman, puts it, "Jihad is not inhumane, despite its necessary violence and bloodshed, its ultimate desire is peace which is protected and enhanced by the rule of law." In truth, the Qur'an not only calls Muslims to submit to Allah, it also commands them to subdue people of other religions until they are in a full state of submission to Islamic rule. This has inspired the aggressive history of Islam and its success in conquering other cultures

STEVE

I disagree with Steve. Islam is like the the sequel to the other Abrahamic faiths. All throught the Quran other prophets such as Jesus, Musa and Abraham are mentioned along with the Gospel and the Torah. The Bible also mentions the coming of Muhammed the Prophet of Islam in number of places. John 16:13 Yet when the Spirit of Truth comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own accord, but will speak whatever he hears and will declare to you the things that are to come.

Islam does not allow forcing people to convert to Islam but teaches how to teach people about it. If Muslims forced People to become Muslim there will not be 15million Arab Christians in the Middle East. The largest Muslims population in the World is in Indonesia and no war has ever taken place there were Muslims forced people to accept Islam. The Quran says; "Invite all to the way of your Lord with wisdom and beautiful preachings and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious" 16:125 "Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things" 2:256 Despite Islam being under constant attack from the media it still remains the fastest growing religion in the World and Allah says in the Quran; "They desire to extinguish Allah's light with their mouths. But Allah refuses to do other than perfect His light, even though the unbelievers detest it. He sent His messenger with guidance and the religion of truth to exalt it over every other religion, even though the idolaters detest it" Islam has never caused a problem on the Island, if freemasons have a masonic hall it is unfair for anyone to go against a mosque.

JON

I had a look at this site and it doesn't appear that the opposition is particularly racist. In fact it warns people to avoid racism. Anyone who wants to see the impact that Mosques make in a community and how Muslims are drawn toward areas that welcome them should visit Blackburn in Lancashire. It really is quite beautiful to hear the loud Muslim prayers and calls for Allah on a Sunday morning. In fact that is all you can hear and it really does give the area a wonderful Middle Eastern feel. You would never guess it had once been a cotton town and most of the people that you see and meet are wearing wonderful Islamic dress. You feel that you are not in England and it really is a fantastic experience to realize that the whole history and culture of the area has been changed by this wonderful faith that preaches love to all mankind and proves its respect for mankind in its daily work and beliefs. In fact I believe that Islamic law will soon follow and ofcourse as accepting people we all welcome that don't we ? In order to allow this letter to be published I must state that racism is wrong because we don't want some people reading the wrong thing into this do we ?

MMC

Are some people looking at an entirely different site? Many of the comments I saw were on the lines of 'they can all **** off, we don't want ******* Muslims here, it's our island' (I refuse to use their illiterate spelling). How much more racist can you get??? Some of things that have been written are absolutely horrible. As I said before, it makes you ashamed to live here.

GRUMPY

I have just had a quick look again at the group in question. Most of the appalling comments have now been removed. I'd like to think that the groups creator hasn't been online for a while and hasn't had the opportunity to remove them, but I doubt it. It is purely because of the press interest that she has now removed them for fear of a backlash. I am not the biggest fan of opening our borders and letting the rest of the world in, but believe me, some of the comments were disgusting. Oh, and they are not all from Ballakermeen....!

SE

Having lived and worked in the Middles East, I am shocked and embarrassed by some of the comments in this article and appalled by facts that are wholly untrue. Regarding Churches, in the Middle East there are plenty for a variety of denominations to worship freely and openly . Only in Saudi Arabia is worship constrained and even then in Expat compounds people can have 'meets'. You may be shocked to discover in many parts of the Middle East much of the land was donated and buildings erected by the local community. In Dubai alone there are at least 12 churches with large signs to welcome you. Both Oman and Kuwait are very tolerant and Qatar has opened its first church in recent years. Sweeping statements and generalisations create tensions in all communities. These usually come from a lack of understanding and choosing what we want to hear or see. The Island (because of our size) has a unique opportunity to continue developing a cross cultural society. We can all learn from one another, not just through religion, but traditions of food, celebrations and come to understand, we are all the same no matter where we are from or what we believe in we can enhance each other's lives.

ES

"The Bible also mentions the coming of Muhammed the Prophet of Islam in number of places" No it doesnt, and the quote you gave was regarding 'The Holy Spirit', not muhammad. "Despite Islam being under constant attack from the media it still remains the fastest growing religion in the World" Yes, they really need to get to grips with contraception. Pakistan's population has grown by 300 % in my lifetime and I'm only in my 40s. It's population is predicted by the UN to reach 360 million by 2050. "Islam has never caused a problem on the Island." Not yet but it will given the opportunity. The mosque will be used to sow hatred of the non muslims on the Isle of Man. Watch the Channel 4 documentary 'undercover mosque'. Islam causes problems wherever it spreads.

JM

JM, I would strongly suggest that you get your facts straight. The population growth rate of Pakistan is far low than what you are claiming and is listed at number 62 in the world population growth list on wikipedia which also shows Ireland at number 69 and Israel at number 78. We muslims have never created any problems on the Island and never will. The mosque has been here for the last 16 years which confirms that we have never created problems. Secondly I would strongly recommend reading the Bible where you will come across references of Mohammed PBUH. It is amazing that you know the "facts" about the population growth rate of Pakistan but are unaware of the fact that there has been a mosque here for so long and will be in the future as well.

ANON

ANON - My facts are fine thankyou, but forget all that. Just answer one simple question. If you had a sister, would you let a non muslim man marry her?

JM

As an English person who recently left the IOM to return to England this

kind of behaviour does not surprise me at all from the Manx, when I first arrived there in the 80s the current then Manx people chose to burn houses and Tynwald Hill with their slogan FSFO standing for finance sector xxx off or in other words the English/Irish/Welsh etc who had chosen to relocate to the Island. This is just another racist attack on anyone who is not Manx and in actual fact there is very little true Manx left anyway. regards

GLAD TO BE AWAY

JM - The verse of the Bible I have mentioned says that when the spirit of truth comes he will guide you to truth and will declare to you things that are to come. When did the Holy spirit come to this. Did the Holy spirit come with more truth and declared more things? No it didnt. It was the Prophet Muhammed that came and the Quran mentions Muhammed does not talk out of his own will but the will of God. The Bible verse is just one verse I have mentioned and there is alot more, and not just in the Bible, Muhammed is also mentioned in other religions aswell and has a connection with all the major religions of the World. As for the fastest growing religion its also the fastest growing in the west. And finally the programme you mentioned on channel 4, the producers of that programme were prosecuted for cut and pasting the video to make it look bad. Chritians have killed hundreds and millions of people throughout history like in the crusades in Turkey and the middle east and in South America. But it will be wrong to judge a Christian because of what them particular Christians did. There are many neighborly conditions that have to be met to be a good muslim. The Prophet mentioned when you bring a gift for your children then also bring a gift for your neighbours children or not let your children go out with it in front onf them. A person is not a muslim if hes neighbor goes to bed on an empty stomach and he goes to bed with a full stomach. We are required to help our neighbors, protect them and there property and all these are regardless of wether the neighbors are muslim or not.

ANON

ANON: I noticed that you didn't answer my question about what you'd do if your sister wanted to marry a non muslim. pakistan population: "In 1947, at the time of independence, Pakistan's population was 31 million. By 1995 it had escalated to 140 million." So that's almost a %500 increase in 48 years. "According to United Nations projections, the Pakistan population will grow to over 380 million by the year 2050."

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=2075591

I googled this, which according to you is a Biblical reference to muhammad: "Yet when the Spirit of Truth comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own accord, but will speak whatever he hears and will declare to you the things that are to come." The first link bring up this page: http://bible.cc/john/16-13.htm

It is plain that this quote is referring to 'The Spirit of Truth' which is released on Christ's death. It has nothing to do with muhammad. "Chritians have killed hundreds and millions of people throughout history like in the crusades in Turkey and the middle east and in South America. But it will be wrong to judge a Christian because of what them particular Christians did." So why bring it up then? But since you did, it's been estimated that 80,000,000 died in India alone over a period of a few hundred years since the first muslim invasion. The Crusades were about Christians fighting to regain control of once Christian lands which had been invaded by muslims. The West Midlands police complained about the Channel 4 'Undercover Mosque' team to Ofcom, but Ofcom threw their complaint out. Ofcom stated that there was no evidence to back up the WMP claims that the 'Undercover Mosque' team had manipulated the footage to make the statements of the imams look worse than they were. West Midlands Police took no action against the homophobic and misogynistic imams though

JM

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